WEBVTT 00:00:23.243 --> 00:00:35.726 Hey? Hi! My name's Talison Smith, and I'm with the that interactive simulations project at the University of Colorado, and several members of my team are here today. 00:00:35.726 --> 00:00:37.138 Brett Fitler, and Emily Moore, Matt Moore, Jesse Greenberg, Ashton, are you here? 00:00:37.138 --> 00:00:41.916 I'm here. 00:00:41.916 --> 00:00:51.024 Okay, guys, tomorrow, so I don't know if I missed anyone. 00:00:51.024 --> 00:01:00.830 We all work together to make flexible, interactive, multimodal interacts. 00:01:00.830 --> 00:01:06.144 Yeah, multimodal interactive simulation at the that project at the University of Colorado. 00:01:06.144 --> 00:01:32.332 And today we're not. We're not working on a simulation. 00:01:32.332 --> 00:01:37.831 But we're working on a tool that we and this is mostly been done. This work is mostly been done. This work is mostly done by the rest of my team, but we're working on a tool that we hope to be able to use in co design a more conducive environment and 00:01:37.831 --> 00:01:56.454 so it combines the we're calling it paper program. 00:01:56.454 --> 00:02:02.455 I know paper, playground at the moment, and it's a tool that combines a database of programs that can be right presented on papers and also digitally as programs. 00:02:02.455 --> 00:02:10.581 And and a camera view that detects the programs. 00:02:10.581 --> 00:02:22.467 A projector that computes the programs and a database of program, and then an interactive board. 00:02:22.467 --> 00:02:37.767 Where you can kinda see or see the brand, and maybe Brett wants to explain a little bit more about. 00:02:37.767 --> 00:03:01.957 Yeah, I'd be happy to take over some of some of the any bits here. So Hi, everybody, Brett, also, as tell, yeah. 00:03:01.957 --> 00:03:24.104 So we were. We've done a lot of work in the past when creating all the simulations that that we have and trying to build the sort of breadth of what we call inclusive feature into those simulations, and one thing has always, we you know, kind of continue to struggle 00:03:24.104 --> 00:03:28.956 with is sort of the process of co-design with the variety of learners that we want to create, create with both the simulations and the features for the simulations and the timelines and the levels of kind of technical knowledge that are in the room 00:03:28.956 --> 00:03:41.224 at the time right? Because I mean code design can look like any number of things. 00:03:41.224 --> 00:03:53.961 It can be in the moments you have synchronous groups of people's an hour. Maybe it happens over and over again for us weeks or months. 00:03:53.961 --> 00:04:13.581 Maybe it doesn't, and you know, as things are being designed right, the you know, there's different decisions being made at different times. 00:04:13.581 --> 00:04:29.583 And a lot of the time, and when you're working, especially with some of the younger audiences that we alright, they they have lots of great, and they come up with these, and and we write them down, and we don't necessarily have a right. So we're. 00:04:29.583 --> 00:04:45.018 Creating web effectively, web, development, right? Yeah, creating these things using HTML, csis Javascript as the main interactive component. 00:04:45.018 --> 00:05:01.102 And not all of us are well versed know some more HTML and the like, but none of us are Javascript development, and and somebody has a really great idea. It'd be really great to in some cases at least, instantiate some part of 00:05:01.102 --> 00:05:17.834 it or to be able to explain a little bit more, you know, not just talking back and forth about why, how this idea gets implemented, or how these these kind of work together, talking about a sound. 00:05:17.834 --> 00:05:22.456 They really want to play. And we're also considering how that interacts with some description that's playing or some of the visuals that are happening at the same time. 00:05:22.456 --> 00:05:31.703 And how some of these is your creating an interactive thing, how this can kind of cascade and that's hard to do with. Again. 00:05:31.703 --> 00:05:39.578 Just language, or it's hard to describe an old thing with only one mode. 00:05:39.578 --> 00:05:48.706 So we were, yeah, trying to think of different ways to sort of tackle this problem and kind of bridge. 00:05:48.706 --> 00:05:59.231 The co designer, we'll bridge them together in sort of this design process. 00:05:59.231 --> 00:06:12.459 So that LED us to this existing tool here. So I don't. 00:06:12.459 --> 00:06:26.396 If with with dynamic land. Which was a was, is a kind of an experience happening over in Oakland, California. 00:06:26.396 --> 00:06:35.125 But I was all around this idea of creating kind of like a collaborative space, and specifically there to do do programming. 00:06:35.125 --> 00:06:59.266 But the idea that I was taken up by it's an open source project created by Developer Yan Paul Pasma. 00:06:59.266 --> 00:07:00.108 And this paper programs.org and so you put this out here and we we're pretty smitten by this idea of not only kind of creating well, being able to take you, said a Javascript program. 00:07:00.108 --> 00:07:17.517 So that's what Yann had created. 00:07:17.517 --> 00:07:20.023 Here was a way to, you know. Write Javascripts and associate it with effectively a set of markets and to be able to put those out into the real world, and get them detected and have them run so basically running Javascripts 00:07:20.023 --> 00:07:25.459 Javascript on paper. That was the selling point. 00:07:25.459 --> 00:07:49.582 But what this meant to us was, well, one we're writing in Javascript. 00:07:49.582 --> 00:08:06.106 So that's good, but it also rods brought the experience of making these changes and manipulating these kind of more abstract ideas that are, you know, our simulations represent whether those are kind of like physical equations you know. 00:08:06.106 --> 00:08:18.398 gravity, or whatever we happen to be working on that day, and taking the control out of the screen, creating alright if it's like the programs themselves. 00:08:18.398 --> 00:08:32.831 These scripts are a real piece of paper that you get. This scenario now tells, and hasn't in front of her, where there's a tabletop and we've and we've always been interested and strong believers that the physical space 00:08:32.831 --> 00:08:39.205 is still very important, and in times where you can again have groups of alright designers and co designers in the same space by being able to take advantage of the physical space would would be very helpful. 00:08:39.205 --> 00:08:50.891 So this tool as it was paper programs already captured. A lot of this. 00:08:50.891 --> 00:08:53.456 And so what we wanted to you've been doing here is adapting that framework, that software within. 00:08:53.456 --> 00:08:59.104 Yeah, kind of the co- design needs that we are seeing. 00:08:59.104 --> 00:09:06.120 And so, yeah, so that kind of leads us to this. 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:09.456 And I think that after at this point we'll continue to talk more. 00:09:09.456 --> 00:09:16.768 It's probably best to show talk extensively. 00:09:16.768 --> 00:09:20.704 Right. So I just want to point out we're gonna I'll show a camera and then we're gonna load programs. 00:09:20.704 --> 00:09:29.579 We'll do that with paper, because these programs are printing. 00:09:29.579 --> 00:09:36.023 And and then we can like see the different effects that can happen, and Brett can edit. 00:09:36.023 --> 00:09:41.218 Some programs live, and those will also make changes. So that's sort of kind of what we're gonna try and do here. 00:09:41.218 --> 00:09:45.265 So just as a very simple, okay, so this is the program. 00:09:45.265 --> 00:09:50.517 I'm sorry down here. That was the model for that. 00:09:50.517 --> 00:09:55.395 Thing. So the when you come, when you load this thing up, you just get the supporting. 00:09:55.395 --> 00:10:03.142 It. We have 3 lengths of camera, projector and design platform or interactive board. 00:10:03.142 --> 00:10:08.268 Oh! 00:10:08.268 --> 00:10:10.517 So it's in the camera view. You can load the papers sort of virtually. We're just gonna do a simple cuts down. 00:10:10.517 --> 00:10:11.456 Hey? Hey? Telson? Yeah. Sorry. Can get back up just once more. 00:10:11.456 --> 00:10:21.102 No! 00:10:21.102 --> 00:10:35.331 Yeah, so, yeah, what tells us is gonna start to put out here is some examples that we already have some an important aspect about. 00:10:35.331 --> 00:10:40.641 This is, you know, again, we're trying to have a kind of a thing to ease, to make code design sort of more productive for for all parties involved. 00:10:40.641 --> 00:10:45.517 Part of that is, you know, kind of supporting us. 00:10:45.517 --> 00:10:47.772 And so, yeah, we have again, not everybody's an expert in Javascript. 00:10:47.772 --> 00:10:55.894 And we have developers with us. Right now, we're helping us work on the tool. 00:10:55.894 --> 00:10:58.768 But one of the ideas here is that you know, we are creating these programs. 00:10:58.768 --> 00:11:14.772 I do do different things. And we'll share some of the kind of simple cases of what you can do. 00:11:14.772 --> 00:11:33.641 And the answer is pretty much anything you can write in Javascripts and push to the push through a web page is what you can accomplish with these, but yeah, retaining a lot of the kind of legacy functionality of paper programs. 00:11:33.641 --> 00:11:46.273 And it again. I recommend post. But the programs that she's putting out here are all live in just a database, and this is one that we have hosted up so that we can, you know tell us in in Toronto now and me, I'm over here in 00:11:46.273 --> 00:11:50.770 Philadelphia, and Emily Moore over in California, can all kind of work to and kind of create this. 00:11:50.770 --> 00:12:00.269 These sets of programs that we can pull in and build upon. 00:12:00.269 --> 00:12:06.393 And so, you know, creating more and more examples that are more useful to folks who are not necessarily developers. 00:12:06.393 --> 00:12:18.769 So yeah, we'll just very quickly share a few of the kind of simple cases here and how it works. 00:12:18.769 --> 00:12:24.644 And so every program is associated with a an actual physical paper, and it is associated with this kind of a series of colored dots. 00:12:24.644 --> 00:12:30.105 There are 7 per corner, and they're colored black, blue, red, and green. 00:12:30.105 --> 00:12:34.644 Each sequence is associated with the program. 00:12:34.644 --> 00:12:42.110 So this this program here just sets the background color so you can see that it changed to blue. 00:12:42.110 --> 00:12:44.207 Oh! 00:12:44.207 --> 00:12:54.728 So this I can go in, live, and in in the code there and change it to. 00:12:54.728 --> 00:12:56.792 If you wanted, and then this one should play a test sound, although I might sound off. Is anyone hearing anything? 00:12:56.792 --> 00:12:58.984 No, I don't. 00:12:58.984 --> 00:13:03.393 Did you share with sound? 00:13:03.393 --> 00:13:16.897 I can't share with sound. Oh, let me see! 00:13:16.897 --> 00:13:20.112 Stop share. That's fair. I didn't hear anything so share down, Eric. 00:13:20.112 --> 00:13:24.956 Can you click into the board? 00:13:24.956 --> 00:13:36.668 With this one I could. 00:13:36.668 --> 00:13:37.148 So I don't know. I'm gonna get paid back. 00:13:37.148 --> 00:13:38.229 No! 00:13:38.229 --> 00:13:43.146 Not supposed to be. 00:13:43.146 --> 00:13:58.893 Just be using. 00:13:58.893 --> 00:14:10.332 Worked before. I'm not sure we did something. Well, during our last meeting that changed program. 00:14:10.332 --> 00:14:11.895 Go ahead. I'm not sure I have sound, so. I wanted to play this down, but I'm not hearing it awesome. 00:14:11.895 --> 00:14:17.767 I think so. You're muted. 00:14:17.767 --> 00:14:22.951 Your computer's muted sorry. Alright! See in the top there's a. 00:14:22.951 --> 00:14:24.643 Yeah, but I was old on mute. Try try on muting. 00:14:24.643 --> 00:14:33.115 Okay. 00:14:33.115 --> 00:14:40.830 Oops! 00:14:40.830 --> 00:14:56.453 Yeah, that's muted and unmute. 00:14:56.453 --> 00:15:15.269 I just had to mute the Collab room microphone because we were just gonna get some feedback there for me. 00:15:15.269 --> 00:15:26.335 Telson, try unmuting on your zoom on your laptop right now try unmuting, and see if the audio will play. 00:15:26.335 --> 00:15:31.898 It should be a zoom. It's hard, because I know Zoom moves its control panel off when you're screen sharing, you have to find that. 00:15:31.898 --> 00:15:36.302 And unmute. Oh, there we go! Try that! 00:15:36.302 --> 00:15:37.359 I heard it that time. Bye! 00:15:37.359 --> 00:15:57.150 Hmm! I don't hear it. 00:15:57.150 --> 00:16:04.039 Okay. Here. There's some feedback. Here's greeting with now. 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:09.492 Yeah. 00:16:09.492 --> 00:16:13.243 Oh, I heard it! 00:16:13.243 --> 00:16:14.132 I know. Yeah, just a simple. 00:16:14.132 --> 00:16:14.858 Okay. Okay. 00:16:14.858 --> 00:16:20.333 There it was! 00:16:20.333 --> 00:16:31.244 Simple example. Taking advantage of web audio. 00:16:31.244 --> 00:16:33.799 Okay. 00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:38.984 Hmm! If only my business card did that when I handed it to someone. 00:16:38.984 --> 00:16:46.103 So we're this guy fy over my AD bird is the working for feedback. 00:16:46.103 --> 00:16:59.768 Cause. He's muted the volume and the room and then I guess I'm just talking with my computer. 00:16:59.768 --> 00:17:05.645 Okay, so we have sound working. That's great. And then we have a simple text note that we can put on screen, which will come in handy for one of our examples later. 00:17:05.645 --> 00:17:12.586 So these are just 3 super simple programs. Okay? Brad changed the color to purple. 00:17:12.586 --> 00:17:13.773 The last kind of the blue, and how we can't hear that very much anymore. 00:17:13.773 --> 00:17:21.109 Turtle, and we're looking. 00:17:21.109 --> 00:17:29.022 So those are a simple example. The system is working, the dots are being recognized. 00:17:29.022 --> 00:17:30.895 Sometimes lighting is problem. Then we can use a more interesting example. 00:17:30.895 --> 00:17:54.957 Yeah, here I'll pause here real quick. 00:17:54.957 --> 00:17:58.125 Yeah, and so the goal. Obviously, if we were working side by side with someone or I was in the room with Tilson, and we would turn out to troubleshoot something here is that we could either you know, on subver computers be working through the editor and Tab over to the editor there. Real quick that's the window that I have open on my 00:17:58.125 --> 00:17:59.116 screen. 00:17:59.116 --> 00:18:04.524 Oh, yeah. 00:18:04.524 --> 00:18:07.773 Yeah, I mean, even see that I'm currently in it, and she can't access it. 00:18:07.773 --> 00:18:31.104 But that this is the kind of thing that we'd be working with. 00:18:31.104 --> 00:18:50.456 And so I just wanted to dwell on this for just a quick moment, because an important part here is the idea of, you know, again getting non technical on Javascript of helpers involved in the process here, one of which I said, of course was, you know, the more examples there are the more things that are already. Here. 00:18:50.456 --> 00:18:56.142 The more people can just drag and drop, and sort of make small changes to, and part of that process at the moment in, you know, right now, sort of the Javascript structure is, you know, this that kind of idea of templating and adding extensive documentation in 00:18:56.142 --> 00:19:05.102 code, so it's just really clear what are the what the things? 00:19:05.102 --> 00:19:09.329 That you might want to change if you were, if for whatever context it's like you're trying to make. 00:19:09.329 --> 00:19:12.114 So here, if we're trying to just play around with some sounds, you know, we would know that. 00:19:12.114 --> 00:19:24.268 Telson. Okay, sorry. Can you scroll back up to the top? 00:19:24.268 --> 00:19:30.271 That it would be fairly easy to change just you know the file that's being played. 00:19:30.271 --> 00:19:32.111 Sorry. Yeah. Your editor is kind of small at the moment, but hmm! 00:19:32.111 --> 00:19:38.146 Yeah, no. Problem. 00:19:38.146 --> 00:19:51.894 Yeah, and you could kinda iterate on this process. 00:19:51.894 --> 00:20:00.896 And assuming that these things are sort of well documented, and it's clear what you can change that there's gonna be can be quickly, quickly modified right in the moment for the person you're working with. 00:20:00.896 --> 00:20:02.104 Yeah, I'm not sure where the file is, but there is a name for okay. 00:20:02.104 --> 00:20:03.266 Oh, it's at the top. It's just scrolled over. But that's okay. 00:20:03.266 --> 00:20:04.769 Okay. 00:20:04.769 --> 00:20:07.958 We can. We can go back to the. 00:20:07.958 --> 00:20:17.955 Okay. 00:20:17.955 --> 00:20:25.336 Now we have the whole field here. So those are my 3 simple programs. 00:20:25.336 --> 00:20:29.707 And then we have other examples that could be with altitude. 00:20:29.707 --> 00:20:48.771 Yeah, and and I'll start. And just the city a little bit. 00:20:48.771 --> 00:20:54.222 So just sharing the simple stuff you know, if folks are looking at this and starting to get a sense for what's doing and what you know, seeing some of the kind of more generic capabilities and thinking about, you know what possible use cases you could have 00:20:54.222 --> 00:21:11.033 we're gonna show a couple of examples here that start to do the kind of thing that we were. 00:21:11.033 --> 00:21:25.834 Like, I kind of mentioned before. You know again, we're in these cod design moments, and you kind of want to see the interrelatedness of the things that you're designing, that you're across across different modes. So you know here. 00:21:25.834 --> 00:21:31.522 We'll highlight visual sonification, and how those play, depending on the kind of you know, underlying relationships that we have. 00:21:31.522 --> 00:21:35.648 So again, the kinds of relationships that we're usually dealing with are of the physical equation. 00:21:35.648 --> 00:21:42.210 Nature, often some sort of STEM concept. That's a physical equation. 00:21:42.210 --> 00:21:49.106 Chemical equation, mathematical relationships which many things boil down to. 00:21:49.106 --> 00:21:55.897 Even if you were to use a you know, financial models, some sort. 00:21:55.897 --> 00:22:00.648 But yeah, so you know, kind of highlighting here. 00:22:00.648 --> 00:22:02.896 And this first one is fairly simple and fairly linear. 00:22:02.896 --> 00:22:10.652 But. 00:22:10.652 --> 00:22:17.019 A more specific use case that we consider, and what we're aiming for and using it. 00:22:17.019 --> 00:22:21.208 But but it could be generalized or useful, I would say, of the STEM contacts as well. 00:22:21.208 --> 00:22:27.023 Hmm, and then this one, this paper here is just adding that image. 00:22:27.023 --> 00:22:33.540 You start to see it at the bottom. Now, this next program is called Change Altitude, with paper. 00:22:33.540 --> 00:22:37.644 So I'm gonna add this program, and I'll be able to use the paper as a as well. 00:22:37.644 --> 00:22:41.267 At low altitude. You are a treetop flyer. 00:22:41.267 --> 00:22:43.894 And it's voicing which didn't expect. 00:22:43.894 --> 00:22:48.394 But that's nice. 00:22:48.394 --> 00:22:54.958 It's I think it's recognizing the program in the left edge of the screen. 00:22:54.958 --> 00:23:00.208 Oh, okay, perfect. I'll just add that in, because that's the voiced content. 00:23:00.208 --> 00:23:08.770 At sea level. You are in the splash zone. 00:23:08.770 --> 00:23:11.459 So you could work with people to come up with different descriptions here, and you could just listen and group paper. 00:23:11.459 --> 00:23:16.102 At low altitude. You are a tree top flyer at high altitude. 00:23:16.102 --> 00:23:16.779 You are a stratospheric sore at very high altitude. 00:23:16.779 --> 00:23:18.832 Telstra, and can you pull the image out? 00:23:18.832 --> 00:23:19.707 You are at the edge of space. 00:23:19.707 --> 00:23:21.016 Sorry. 00:23:21.016 --> 00:23:23.330 Can you pull the image out? 00:23:23.330 --> 00:23:28.768 Hold image! Out! Yup! 00:23:28.768 --> 00:23:31.103 Hmm! You might need to move a little bit further over. 00:23:31.103 --> 00:23:36.266 Oh, not on the port! Oh, sorry! 00:23:36.266 --> 00:23:44.518 Yeah, so. 00:23:44.518 --> 00:23:46.834 At high altitude, you are a stratospheric, sore at low altitude. 00:23:46.834 --> 00:23:59.515 You are a tree top flyer. 00:23:59.515 --> 00:24:08.456 Yeah, so in a lot of the work. Uhhuh, a lot of the work that we do, you know, we that's some of the most challenging parts of the code design are outside of the visual it's the relationships of the sounds. 00:24:08.456 --> 00:24:17.831 And and and and how does play together? That is kind of the hardest for us to prototype a lot of the time. 00:24:17.831 --> 00:24:25.771 And so just to emphasize here that, like the kinds of examples that the prototypes that we come up with, don't require a visual. 00:24:25.771 --> 00:24:28.332 Hmm! 00:24:28.332 --> 00:24:36.188 There's still a number there, but we don't have to be there and tell us a good play with this, and if you could throw in the sound program. 00:24:36.188 --> 00:24:39.392 And people hear that. 00:24:39.392 --> 00:24:40.395 Yup! 00:24:40.395 --> 00:24:41.856 Yeah, we can hear. 00:24:41.856 --> 00:24:49.118 At high altitude at very high altitude. You are at the edge of. 00:24:49.118 --> 00:24:50.209 That'll change a volume, I think, as a gets higher, lower. 00:24:50.209 --> 00:24:54.706 Pitch. 00:24:54.706 --> 00:24:59.457 High altitude. You are a stratosphere at medium altitude. 00:24:59.457 --> 00:25:13.337 You are a cloud crew at sea level. You are in the splash zone. 00:25:13.337 --> 00:25:18.355 Yeah, you can play with it. And knocks like the sound with the description and the to see if the like. 00:25:18.355 --> 00:25:22.402 The model that you're it's been kind of described or split accurately through the description. 00:25:22.402 --> 00:25:25.835 I who sounded at the same time and not me. This takes several iterations. 00:25:25.835 --> 00:25:29.523 If I'm going okay, I would try this, and I give it to Jesse. 00:25:29.523 --> 00:25:35.895 Can implement. And then I have to go. Listen to it again. 00:25:35.895 --> 00:25:42.394 After I thought about it, and then you know, and where is this? I can kind of just do it live, or I can do it. 00:25:42.394 --> 00:25:47.460 Live with another, and do it virtually too. 00:25:47.460 --> 00:25:51.853 Sorry. Just wanted to put that in there, Brett, you were saying. 00:25:51.853 --> 00:26:07.893 Yeah, yeah, so there's pretty much maximum flexibility here. 00:26:07.893 --> 00:26:14.393 And there's some some more nuance that we can talk about, in terms of how we, how we structure sort of what parts were building onto this gang, because a lot of this tool existed before. 00:26:14.393 --> 00:26:21.578 What we're building. That supports the kind of design and the kinds of things that we're trying to create. 00:26:21.578 --> 00:26:28.266 And a lot of that has to do with making things fairly robust with. 00:26:28.266 --> 00:26:34.331 You know the introduction and like when things disappear and when they don't sort of what happens. 00:26:34.331 --> 00:26:38.838 So when the thing, the program here, which is the which is just the thing, that sort of defining what? 00:26:38.838 --> 00:26:42.831 What is altitude, and how does that change that? 00:26:42.831 --> 00:26:49.119 It's yeah what happens when that it disappears and nothing else can see it anymore. 00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:53.958 But things don't just break, because that would be frustrating of. 00:26:53.958 --> 00:27:11.523 At low altitude. You are a tree top flyer. 00:27:11.523 --> 00:27:19.274 Yeah, I. Have. I have a question about this this collaboration is really fascinating to to see live, because, having gone through that process as well, I'm trying to create text descriptions or audio descriptions for things that are happening live and just sort 00:27:19.274 --> 00:27:26.522 of that development bag behind like design and development and testing, and like all that is really fast. 00:27:26.522 --> 00:27:28.711 That all shortened because of through this through this kind of interaction. 00:27:28.711 --> 00:27:53.773 I'm I'm just kind of curious. 00:27:53.773 --> 00:28:14.146 If there has been any, if a teacher would be able to access the same tools and be able to customize the descriptions, and very much the same way, cause I'm thinking, because fed simulations are often appealing at different grade levels, your description, say you might want to provide might be 00:28:14.146 --> 00:28:17.341 different, depending on the on the student as well, so will the teacher be able to access the similar tool, be able to customize their audio description, so that they have something more customized personalized for their vert. 00:28:17.341 --> 00:28:24.116 Yeah, so that's actually, probably a very good question. 00:28:24.116 --> 00:28:29.956 That's related to a lot of the other work that's ongoing with server fols in production. 00:28:29.956 --> 00:28:45.640 At the moment we are kind of focusing on this as one on sort of simpler interactions. 00:28:45.640 --> 00:29:00.643 The goal at the moment is not to support the ability to create like a full simulation, if only because they are very at least the things that we're creating are very complicated in terms of all the moving pieces, to get that. 00:29:00.643 --> 00:29:07.456 But when you know, when we're actually designing things, the like, the types of interactions that we're kind of like fussing over and trying to even just grab our brains around can be made in sort of like a smaller subset of the of the 00:29:07.456 --> 00:29:17.654 people, so like, you know, rather than having entire thing about Ohm's law, right? 00:29:17.654 --> 00:29:28.706 Voltage Equals Current Times. Resistance for those who may may remember or have to a circuitry, and the like. 00:29:28.706 --> 00:29:47.266 Electronics is sorry. Is that? Yeah? Not having to create the entire experience. There. 00:29:47.266 --> 00:29:55.587 But that okay, well, we know the relationship there. And right now tell us, just really trying to figure out how, with a learner at the time, what's a better way to have that mapping between what's being said and like maybe the the scale of it's the 00:29:55.587 --> 00:29:58.659 range across the values, whether or not actually. And this is a good point here to show off another thing is right, not everything is always just linearly related, right? 00:29:58.659 --> 00:30:05.643 They're not one to one mappings, but things can be inversely related. 00:30:05.643 --> 00:30:12.652 Things can be exponentially related, and those things get even harder for us to think about. 00:30:12.652 --> 00:30:18.394 But yeah, so that we said, You know, for publication, ready simulations. 00:30:18.394 --> 00:30:35.703 That question has a very different answer. I'll say, from this point, that's yeah. 00:30:35.703 --> 00:30:46.106 We'd love for eventually. Right? If this is a deployable tool and we're able to share the database of examples because it is important here that the database itself is at the moment a remotely hosted thing for us. 00:30:46.106 --> 00:30:48.644 But you know we have a copy of it copied in a github, so anybody could could have those, but they have to either choose to put it up remotely somewhere themselves, unless we're hosting it. 00:30:48.644 --> 00:30:51.582 That kind of server, or they're able to do it locally. 00:30:51.582 --> 00:30:53.028 It's just a little extra setup at the moment. 00:30:53.028 --> 00:30:59.654 But yeah, absolutely that they'd be able to create their own setup. 00:30:59.654 --> 00:31:02.522 So they wanted to, you know, have these sort of simpler, simpler experiences. 00:31:02.522 --> 00:31:08.706 Some kind of interactive experience with what kind of interaction. 00:31:08.706 --> 00:31:19.271 So I kind of see it more like designing like an interaction. 00:31:19.271 --> 00:31:25.458 And then some of those interactions, I mean being able to design an interaction in this kind of space would then help me sort of like, refine the design which would be part of the simulation. 00:31:25.458 --> 00:31:39.119 But certainly with the school I would be able to refine the language much more quickly on a more iterative process. 00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:51.955 Or then my current process, which is like billing tables, and then translating that the developer, and then having an implement and then having to test it alright. 00:31:51.955 --> 00:31:58.893 So so this I can listen to in advance, like, for example, like sometimes I need a really simple scale, like a few morning, get charges and positive charges, charges several morning. 00:31:58.893 --> 00:32:17.227 The charges and positive charges like, I think I have 5 on scale, for the number of charges and loses that electricity. 00:32:17.227 --> 00:32:29.460 But when describing distance and around the course of basics, I think I used to 7 point scale, and then to come up with the words in terms of you know, very close to, you know, extremely close to you know, extremely close to, like you know, and and those are related to other things about 00:32:29.460 --> 00:32:33.582 life before, so making sure that those description then mock to what's happening visually, and the other tech the other. 00:32:33.582 --> 00:32:41.775 Description, that you hear while you're making that refraction. 00:32:41.775 --> 00:33:00.707 So sometimes you just want it. Test out the scale of which is kind of hard to do with description, easier with sound. 00:33:00.707 --> 00:33:02.334 Yeah, yeah, since we think we'll want time for more extensions. 00:33:02.334 --> 00:33:02.583 But doing the same, and then you can do them together like sound, and the description together generally don't do unless the sound, unless the sound gets implemented first. 00:33:02.583 --> 00:33:05.119 But let's maybe move through a couple more examples. 00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:07.582 Okay. 00:33:07.582 --> 00:33:09.953 Quickly, here, so let's go back to the altitude really quickly. 00:33:09.953 --> 00:33:16.647 Okay. 00:33:16.647 --> 00:33:24.456 You already have that open and just cause? Yeah, because John brought up Ro the question and then the native mappings came up. 00:33:24.456 --> 00:33:26.580 That could be kind of important. So I'm gonna switch I'm gonna it's actually we'll have you do this. 00:33:26.580 --> 00:33:33.894 So we're trying to hide anything about the editor here. 00:33:33.894 --> 00:33:42.019 There's no magic happening. Go ahead and remove the control. 00:33:42.019 --> 00:33:46.114 Oh! 00:33:46.114 --> 00:33:48.269 So, yeah, an important distinction here is that the actual for the for us, like the altitude model the thing that's defining the relationships between things right? 00:33:48.269 --> 00:33:58.645 If it's saying this, this is altitude. 00:33:58.645 --> 00:33:59.114 And that's the value of altitude. And you guys can see at the moment there's a 0 on the straight the board, and it increments with the value of of the altitude. 00:33:59.114 --> 00:34:04.457 Hmm! 00:34:04.457 --> 00:34:13.016 But that's being controlled by entirely different program and not by the model itself. 00:34:13.016 --> 00:34:17.832 And so there's a, you know, again, ability for the programs, the papers to talk and send values out and share them across and make use of them. 00:34:17.832 --> 00:34:25.769 So you saw some of them change sort of like the display. 00:34:25.769 --> 00:34:28.766 So they're listening for the altitude value to either voice it out, or play the sound or update the sound. 00:34:28.766 --> 00:34:33.893 And but that can be flexible. 00:34:33.893 --> 00:34:35.210 So. Oh, sorry! Let me not be honest, so you can edit it. 00:34:35.210 --> 00:34:37.519 Okay, well, I always just let you edit it. I was just gonna show it. 00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:40.394 But you need to edit it for. 00:34:40.394 --> 00:34:40.955 Okay, you you can open it backup. 00:34:40.955 --> 00:34:47.112 Okay. 00:34:47.112 --> 00:34:54.226 Yeah, so altitude, model is so just to kind of show. 00:34:54.226 --> 00:34:57.835 You know how things can change. If the that the mapping is different, and the kind of thing you might want to explore. 00:34:57.835 --> 00:35:12.028 And so this is a simple change. But oh! 00:35:12.028 --> 00:35:21.332 Alright. Make this a bit quieter. Lots of user interface improvements to make alright. 00:35:21.332 --> 00:35:28.847 Okay, so yeah. 00:35:28.847 --> 00:35:38.391 Yeah, so, and you can see some where we're at right now with the ability to edit document up some of the papers. 00:35:38.391 --> 00:35:58.394 So this is again a the code associated with that paper that Tellyson has out, and kind of fixing most of the things that people might want to change near the top. 00:35:58.394 --> 00:36:04.017 And one of the things that we've noticed for designers such as ourselves is developing the Javascripts is pretty hard, but finding the plate things that we can change is not quite as hard, so as sort of an intermediate step yeah this is kind 00:36:04.017 --> 00:36:17.131 of where we're reaching. So yeah, okay, sure, we can try that. 00:36:17.131 --> 00:36:19.582 So switching from a you know one to one mapping to more of a more of a inverse relationship and just being able to quickly change that kind of thing. Alright cause. 00:36:19.582 --> 00:36:27.272 Those are some of the most. Yeah. 00:36:27.272 --> 00:36:27.833 Okay. 00:36:27.833 --> 00:36:34.270 Sort of challenging ideas to wrap, wrap your head around things that are outside of the have linear space. 00:36:34.270 --> 00:36:42.520 Okay. So oh, we're gonna show the board. Maybe. 00:36:42.520 --> 00:36:49.122 Sorry. Awesome this over. 00:36:49.122 --> 00:36:52.708 Okay, so and I worked instead of having the paper changed, it. 00:36:52.708 --> 00:36:55.519 I changed it so the model paper and changed the position. 00:36:55.519 --> 00:36:58.211 And I'm playing the paper down. 00:36:58.211 --> 00:37:01.269 At high altitude. You are a stratospheric, sore. 00:37:01.269 --> 00:37:04.896 And it's going off. So I just. 00:37:04.896 --> 00:37:12.146 At low altitude at sea level. You are in the splash zone. 00:37:12.146 --> 00:37:17.896 So you can. So I've inverted the model here. 00:37:17.896 --> 00:37:20.961 Change it to excellent. 00:37:20.961 --> 00:37:21.523 Yeah, that's fine for a time. Let's jump over to denzens. 00:37:21.523 --> 00:37:25.460 Okay. 00:37:25.460 --> 00:37:32.398 So, yeah, just a 1. One more quick demo here to show again. 00:37:32.398 --> 00:37:42.644 Like a step, a step more towards more more sophisticated. 00:37:42.644 --> 00:37:49.273 And some of these programs the designers themselves were able to create, based off the existing templates and little snippets of code that are kind of well documented. 00:37:49.273 --> 00:37:52.142 Voice mapped, value. 00:37:52.142 --> 00:37:57.535 New mass, value 5.0 kg. 00:37:57.535 --> 00:37:58.957 Here, let's actually just put. Can you remove the density model? 00:37:58.957 --> 00:38:04.961 New mass, value 5.0 kg. 00:38:04.961 --> 00:38:05.222 Yup. You want to pull it, pull it out real quick. 00:38:05.222 --> 00:38:12.457 Okay, so density models in there. 00:38:12.457 --> 00:38:15.644 Hey? What? You wanna pull out the density model real quick. 00:38:15.644 --> 00:38:17.113 Oh, okay. 00:38:17.113 --> 00:38:31.591 Yeah, just to highlight one other possibility here, that, yeah. 00:38:31.591 --> 00:38:44.146 Again. What does the thing we're gonna show it here is that like this idea of being able spatially map things to the thing you know, the mappings that you're trying to control feels feels pretty good in general, it's pretty novel and fun. 00:38:44.146 --> 00:38:54.024 But also, yeah, again, we alright. Really hopeful and convinced, is this helpful collaborate environment, but not everything has to be tied to those. 00:38:54.024 --> 00:38:55.229 Nor you know sometimes your physical spaces and strange. So there's also kind of like mock paper virtual representations that can be placed in here. 00:38:55.229 --> 00:38:58.285 Hmm! 00:38:58.285 --> 00:39:01.333 Alright! 00:39:01.333 --> 00:39:04.831 So if you wanna just put the density model in there since it doesn't depend on anything that you might want to change, you know, spatially. 00:39:04.831 --> 00:39:15.330 That's you. Don't wanna take up your own physical space. 00:39:15.330 --> 00:39:19.118 So this is this is a paper as far as the program's concerned, and does everything that it would do if it was being detected like the other papers. 00:39:19.118 --> 00:39:28.704 But you can sort of you know. Move it off the side, and not take. 00:39:28.704 --> 00:39:33.771 Take up your space. So our density models now in there, and that defines our relationship, that we've added is the text over there. 00:39:33.771 --> 00:39:36.349 So density is mass over volume, so volume is inversely proportionate. 00:39:36.349 --> 00:39:40.960 So when volume goes up, density goes down, mass goes up, density. 00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:43.459 Okay, so density, volume, value. 00:39:43.459 --> 00:39:48.771 New volume value, 1.0 leaders. 00:39:48.771 --> 00:40:00.116 And I can put in the image. 00:40:00.116 --> 00:40:04.832 And change massive paper density, voice, density values. 00:40:04.832 --> 00:40:07.159 Sure! 00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:10.518 Density, 5.0 kg per liter density, 5.0 kg per liter. 00:40:10.518 --> 00:40:14.771 I would probably remove voice volume at the same time. 00:40:14.771 --> 00:40:15.786 Voice. Volume. Oh, okay. 00:40:15.786 --> 00:40:20.709 Yeah, your top? 00:40:20.709 --> 00:40:30.019 Density, 5 kg per liter density, 5 kg per liter. 00:40:30.019 --> 00:40:40.117 Okay, so this is gonna change. Bye? 00:40:40.117 --> 00:40:45.218 I have density model in there, and I have density volume. 00:40:45.218 --> 00:40:50.462 And I have image. Matt. 00:40:50.462 --> 00:40:57.641 Yeah, we can change the masks. And so one of the other points here is that there's more that you can take advantage. 00:40:57.641 --> 00:41:04.393 So any of those marker positions you can be used to kind of make this visual relationship so that can be a lot of things that we've shown so far. 00:41:04.393 --> 00:41:14.586 Just sort of like the center position of the paper. So maybe you're vertically changing it or horizontally changing it. 00:41:14.586 --> 00:41:21.706 But here we have a maybe a slightly obscure mapping of a paper area to volume, which might be a strange concept. 00:41:21.706 --> 00:41:37.519 If you if you take that, but yeah, so I'll larger area means just a larger volume. 00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:40.710 So the bigger. That's that paper gets the higher the volume, the lower the density, and a simple mapping of transparency on the image to density. 00:41:40.710 --> 00:41:45.956 So we'll lower the density more transparent. 00:41:45.956 --> 00:41:56.643 The image, and so you start to see how all these things can kind of fit together. 00:41:56.643 --> 00:42:01.523 Yeah, some sounds in there. At the same time, there's different options for her voicing density value as well as the volume or the mass. 00:42:01.523 --> 00:42:15.646 What changes of transparency! 00:42:15.646 --> 00:42:22.009 It's mapped to that city. So if you could take out the mass so the kind of thing that people are gonna do if they're playing around with density is, you know, raise and lower the mass phrase lower the volume and see what effect it has on density, so you could 00:42:22.009 --> 00:42:24.121 click the control mass with paper and move that up and down. 00:42:24.121 --> 00:42:28.460 That's a paper. 00:42:28.460 --> 00:42:43.330 Control mouse with paper. 00:42:43.330 --> 00:42:45.675 The one thing that we are finding at the moment is that in addition to finding all of your your files and scripts, you're now also need a fairly decent organization system for your physical programs. 00:42:45.675 --> 00:42:50.954 Okay. 00:42:50.954 --> 00:42:52.459 Maybe folders, perhaps. 00:42:52.459 --> 00:43:02.833 Little actual folders. 00:43:02.833 --> 00:43:09.649 Okay, so this is changing my ads of that barrel. I wasn't quite sure what the volume did. Oh! 00:43:09.649 --> 00:43:11.999 Yeah. So yeah, making a larger volume will makes the density go down if it's large enough. 00:43:11.999 --> 00:43:18.274 Oh, okay. 00:43:18.274 --> 00:43:25.646 But the the kinds of things that you run into are. 00:43:25.646 --> 00:43:35.670 Yeah, it does the system. So a lot of kudos to to yawn. 00:43:35.670 --> 00:43:36.396 Who created paper programs because he figured out all this code, sorry that allowing things to overlap and still be recognized. 00:43:36.396 --> 00:43:42.122 New volume value 1.6 liters. 00:43:42.122 --> 00:43:42.646 New volume value, 1.0 leaders. 00:43:42.646 --> 00:43:48.226 Alright! 00:43:48.226 --> 00:43:55.768 And so you could also imagine tying things to your rotation and anything else that kind of happens with a TV plane. 00:43:55.768 --> 00:44:02.019 As it is, so that brings a yeah, I'll probably we've a lot of this here for now and go to questions in a moment. 00:44:02.019 --> 00:44:06.583 But we, and it's again. There's some nuance that's not really. 00:44:06.583 --> 00:44:12.142 I'm not hoping not nuanced in the long run, but sort of what we're trying to support. 00:44:12.142 --> 00:44:26.269 Here is the idea of, you know, particular programs that represent the relationships between the things that you care about. 00:44:26.269 --> 00:44:39.468 So that's that was models. You have what we call, you know, the view. So the different displays, whether that's the voicing sound. And then things that control stuff, right? 00:44:39.468 --> 00:44:40.961 And typically, the power of this is to have them map spatially and not necessarily just virtual components, though Tellson could toss in the slider if you wanted to and share that if when you're thinking about ui components. 00:44:40.961 --> 00:44:46.693 New volume value 1.2 litres. 00:44:46.693 --> 00:44:49.707 You. You can do that as well and interact with the Slider on the board over there. 00:44:49.707 --> 00:44:57.021 Yeah, you can even do it. 00:44:57.021 --> 00:45:03.120 New volume, value 2.6 litres. 00:45:03.120 --> 00:45:08.709 And so, you know, part of the power is that we're trying to adapt this to fit with our own. 00:45:08.709 --> 00:45:14.769 That library fed Api, which supports a lot of our inclusive design features. 00:45:14.769 --> 00:45:17.134 So you know interacting with the board automatically gets you things like the highlights. 00:45:17.134 --> 00:45:22.775 Yeah. 00:45:22.775 --> 00:45:26.957 And some of you know our voicing can be stopped with the control button, and a lot of the ultimate support. 00:45:26.957 --> 00:45:37.335 So, yeah, our specific use case there. 00:45:37.335 --> 00:45:40.268 But yeah, making sure that what is what we're interacting with is faithful to what we're trying to create. 00:45:40.268 --> 00:45:47.526 And I lost, lost my brain there for a moment. 00:45:47.526 --> 00:45:52.962 Oh, yeah, sorry. So, yeah, sort of splitting between those different types of programs. 00:45:52.962 --> 00:45:59.711 And what goes into the actual kind of support that? 00:45:59.711 --> 00:46:06.122 But what structures go into the actual software to make that kind of easier to create and understand. 00:46:06.122 --> 00:46:16.520 For those who are working with it. And so I just want to, very quickly, you know, indicate what we definitely know. 00:46:16.520 --> 00:46:23.705 We're going towards. So you know, there's always the possibility of kind of making the code sites simpler in terms of who's interact with. 00:46:23.705 --> 00:46:34.708 So the way I've sort of mentioned is that we're really going for like more examples, more templates, things very well documented down the line. 00:46:34.708 --> 00:46:48.568 If whether or not it's us or this, this is all open source, and I'll drop the the the repo in in the chat here in a second. 00:46:48.568 --> 00:46:54.645 That's you know, other through collaborators, or that additional features are added in terms of yeah, what the code looks like. 00:46:54.645 --> 00:46:59.268 Does it get abstracted? Kind of like dynamic land which is kind of like a Lewis scripting. 00:46:59.268 --> 00:47:08.519 So making just like the types of things that you are typing a little higher level. 00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:19.224 So they're easier to understand. Do you? Going towards things like block coding, which is a lot more approachable to folks? 00:47:19.224 --> 00:47:40.457 Not, you know, inined in the syntax of Javascript, to the different features for the detection. 00:47:40.457 --> 00:47:46.108 So you know, things are currently pieces of paper in 2 dimensions are clever and Eisenberg here and with us we're working to kind of understand where we can push that and what what supports we can have in the tangible world here in terms 00:47:46.108 --> 00:47:56.268 of craft components and things to touch and move and recognize. 00:47:56.268 --> 00:48:08.456 It's a boost. Both the collaborative and just sort of tangible experience of prototyping. 00:48:08.456 --> 00:48:16.760 Oh, sorry! Those are no little prototype. You have questions there and then, of course, you know, for us to start really working with the populations that we do. 00:48:16.760 --> 00:48:24.215 We have worked and improve both our process co design process as well as the tool itself. 00:48:24.215 --> 00:48:35.520 Yeah, and so, yeah, there's a few questions here. 00:48:35.520 --> 00:48:44.631 Alright! I think I've kind of asked them throughout this, but you know ours is, there's very some specific. 00:48:44.631 --> 00:48:46.789 So if anybody sees value outside of that, things that you see about the tool that are exciting or very confusing, and the like. 00:48:46.789 --> 00:48:49.891 Lisa has a question. 00:48:49.891 --> 00:48:52.015 Hi lisa! 00:48:52.015 --> 00:48:59.643 My name's Tson. Hi, I have a couple of questions. 00:48:59.643 --> 00:49:04.101 This is incredibly cool, I think that the potential for this for co-design, especially with kids, is really exciting for me to see. 00:49:04.101 --> 00:49:19.021 And I can definitely see up, even in some of our projects where we do co-design with kids. 00:49:19.021 --> 00:49:23.454 I wish separately was here. She did a lot of codesign for a weavely project and definitely voice the concern around technology in some cases being a barrier for co-design for kids and wishing there was something more tangible that we could bring into the 00:49:23.454 --> 00:49:41.517 activities. That's where I see one area of application. 00:49:41.517 --> 00:49:55.731 For sure I have 2 questions. One is really simple, and I couldn't quite see the cards themselves, so it's hard to know what information is on to what extent those paper artifacts can be changed so like, can you draw pictures inside? 00:49:55.731 --> 00:49:56.845 Or like. Are there any implementations in terms of what might interfere with the limitations in terms of what might interfere with the ability of the program to scan the actual code so that you could also include things like icons and pictures illustrations and words and then my. 00:49:56.845 --> 00:50:07.774 Well, let's find out. 00:50:07.774 --> 00:50:10.896 Awesome. Great question right now. I have in bigger text the names and numbers and programs. 00:50:10.896 --> 00:50:24.709 Yeah. 00:50:24.709 --> 00:50:29.832 So so off, I think in the original design of this paper programs, the code is printed there. But it's not. That's not how we we've got that. 00:50:29.832 --> 00:50:40.021 If you can't call it. 00:50:40.021 --> 00:50:40.154 And yeah, sorry you had a so I'll I can demo something if you don't ask that. Your other question. 00:50:40.154 --> 00:50:40.834 Sure! 00:50:40.834 --> 00:50:41.249 Tales and type still screen, share real, quick. 00:50:41.249 --> 00:50:48.648 Yeah. 00:50:48.648 --> 00:50:59.768 As so mayor, other question is around, kind of two-way collaboration of this could be a part of so how can. 00:50:59.768 --> 00:51:05.643 So I guess to smaller questions, as part of that one is, would it be possible to have also a digital interface that is similar to the paper interface? 00:51:05.643 --> 00:51:10.022 So that you could have a kind of like collaborative touch board. 00:51:10.022 --> 00:51:14.390 And then I'm wondering if you've given any thought to what it might look like to have two-way collaboration. 00:51:14.390 --> 00:51:26.269 And I'm thinking specifically, if you have, let's say one code is participant who's interacting with the physical. 00:51:26.269 --> 00:51:34.025 And then one co-design participant, that interacting with the digital version, how it would be possible for them to talk to each other, whether through like projection or something like that. 00:51:34.025 --> 00:51:36.217 Yeah, so the way the tool setup now is, you know, fine, large, the kind of collaborative aspects through the database. 00:51:36.217 --> 00:51:46.021 And so you know, the tool is constantly talking to it. 00:51:46.021 --> 00:51:50.331 If a program gets updated, then it changes it for everybody and the tool itself, right? 00:51:50.331 --> 00:51:59.455 So I'm running the same thing as Telson is right now, and on my side we're connected to the same database. 00:51:59.455 --> 00:52:03.766 But you know I have my own individual thing running here, and it is doing its own thing, its own thing right. 00:52:03.766 --> 00:52:10.642 So it is separate the moment, as far as putting thought into that. 00:52:10.642 --> 00:52:18.519 Yeah, it's it. It has come up because, Eric, the more that we can start to think about. 00:52:18.519 --> 00:52:22.115 Yeah, sort of this version, remote, remote co- design is its own. 00:52:22.115 --> 00:52:28.115 It's own challenges with its own, and she's better. 00:52:28.115 --> 00:52:34.643 We're a remote team. So tell us and I are trying to use this to do something. 00:52:34.643 --> 00:52:42.832 Then, you know, being able to do some of the things that you're answering here. 00:52:42.832 --> 00:52:47.029 Hmm! 00:52:47.029 --> 00:52:49.895 So having basically this shared shared view that you see here, it's a shared kind of play space by area that's running the same programs would be great. 00:52:49.895 --> 00:52:51.396 It might be. It's something we'd love to work on. 00:52:51.396 --> 00:52:55.462 I think. 00:52:55.462 --> 00:53:17.135 Well, I mean one thing we did notice is like I can play with the like. 00:53:17.135 --> 00:53:25.226 Say if one of us has a physical setup and can play with the physical setup for lack of a better word, the virtual paper, they will obviously moving the virtual paper will change the values of the model, but it won't necessarily change. 00:53:25.226 --> 00:53:42.838 It won't change the physical with with the tool. 00:53:42.838 --> 00:53:48.273 So if someone wanted to make it make a physical change to the model, not the program, but what the information that's being representative, they could do it with paper, or they can do it with the virtual paper. 00:53:48.273 --> 00:53:50.116 That that square that we just saw that was dragged out. 00:53:50.116 --> 00:53:50.723 That was like a virtual representation of a card. I see. 00:53:50.723 --> 00:53:51.152 Yeah. 00:53:51.152 --> 00:53:53.135 Yup! 00:53:53.135 --> 00:54:04.773 Okay, very cool. Thank you. 00:54:04.773 --> 00:54:13.116 Yeah. So at the moment, that's something that we wanna do actually, in the near term is, have the kind of mock or virtual papers aligned more closely with the physical experience. 00:54:13.116 --> 00:54:16.958 And that includes some of the things that you can do, that you can't do with the current program. 00:54:16.958 --> 00:54:21.455 Sorry. The current recognition of of the virtual right. 00:54:21.455 --> 00:54:24.769 They're rectangles, but the things you can do with real pieces of are. 00:54:24.769 --> 00:54:30.708 Oh, these are on the wrong order. Bottom, right top rate. 00:54:30.708 --> 00:54:35.894 Sorry. Is extend just a single alright. I can just pull it. 00:54:35.894 --> 00:54:42.768 One create, you know your arbitrary quadrilaterals, I suppose? 00:54:42.768 --> 00:54:55.519 As well as you know. Rotate with that which of that is not currently capable of? 00:54:55.519 --> 00:55:08.395 So having that more faithfully captured that, and you know possibilities for gesture sort of a computer vision control of the virtual bringing, the embodied. 00:55:08.395 --> 00:55:15.836 Manipulation to the virtual side to in cases where you know, physical setups aren't possible aren't easy, Jonathan. 00:55:15.836 --> 00:55:22.272 Yeah, I have a question more, I guess maybe it's a two-part question. 00:55:22.272 --> 00:55:41.648 The. So I'm curious about the hardware requirements. 00:55:41.648 --> 00:55:53.320 The technology requirements for actually running this, the reason why, I asked this is we've also had projects where we've worked with with groups in either remote or has low access to technology. 00:55:53.320 --> 00:55:57.134 So even having cards printed on color might be an issue, so black and white might be like a laser printer, might be the only option, or even just access to the hardware is another. 00:55:57.134 --> 00:56:04.069 Is it might be a barrier, so I'm just curious like, how can this scale? 00:56:04.069 --> 00:56:12.503 How does this scale into a different context, where they access that technology would be different. 00:56:12.503 --> 00:56:22.004 Yeah. So they'll part of that is similar to the to the previous previous comments. 00:56:22.004 --> 00:56:25.689 So a lot of the resource. Intensive parts of this are using Opencv, the open source computer vision software to do all the recognition. 00:56:25.689 --> 00:56:33.566 So if you were to not use the physical papers. 00:56:33.566 --> 00:56:47.317 But we're doing the virtual that could theoretically cut down a lot on the resource intensiveness. 00:56:47.317 --> 00:56:53.504 So we are, you know, attempting to try different levels of webcam quality and computer quality or performance to see how it works across those. 00:56:53.504 --> 00:57:04.215 But right so one is, you know, if you can't print papers, that there's still a pretty good experience. 00:57:04.215 --> 00:57:10.817 Still a collaborative, helpful experience, virtually is part of our AIM, but also again, kudos, again, to pay for programs. 00:57:10.817 --> 00:57:18.692 And it's developer that's the recognition is pretty good. If you use markers. 00:57:18.692 --> 00:57:25.880 If you have a piece of paper, and you just color those dots that's actually how I started, because I didn't wanna use my incup in our very early iteration. 00:57:25.880 --> 00:57:31.068 But yeah, it actually works surprisingly well, just to have. 00:57:31.068 --> 00:57:39.824 For you know these at the moment. These colors, black, green, red, and blue. 00:57:39.824 --> 00:57:43.819 So the program will framework like a show. You a representation. 00:57:43.819 --> 00:57:58.508 Great thoughts. Yeah. 00:57:58.508 --> 00:58:03.569 Hey? Yeah, I don't know how long these are to go for, but we're happy to stick around and answer questions. 00:58:03.569 --> 00:58:09.758 Sure. Well, I guess I I could help wrap it up. 00:58:09.758 --> 00:58:15.570 Typically these meetings run for an hour. But thank you. Thank you all for coming. 00:58:15.570 --> 00:58:20.380 This is really fascinating. Just sort of like bridging that gap between. 00:58:20.380 --> 00:58:26.229 You know, digital prototyping and physical prototyping and being able to iterate. 00:58:26.229 --> 00:58:30.220 So thank you so much for coming and sharing this, and I hope you all come back again. 00:58:30.220 --> 00:58:36.819 And just you know, demonstrate again that sort of like the next advancement. 00:58:36.819 --> 00:58:39.881 If people wanna hang around they can hang around. But if you have to run off, you know, feel free to go. 00:58:39.881 --> 00:58:45.007 Do that as well. So thank you. Everyone for coming today. 00:58:45.007 --> 00:58:53.007 Thank you, Tyson and Brett. It's great. Thank you.